{"id":3079,"date":"2025-11-25T03:53:35","date_gmt":"2025-11-25T03:53:35","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.adcolegage.com\/it\/?p=3079"},"modified":"2026-04-15T14:12:25","modified_gmt":"2026-04-15T14:12:25","slug":"the-relationship-between-chatter-and-lobing","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.adcolegage.com\/it\/blog\/2025\/11\/25\/the-relationship-between-chatter-and-lobing\/","title":{"rendered":"Il rapporto tra chatter e lobing"},"content":{"rendered":"\t\t<div data-elementor-type=\"wp-post\" data-elementor-id=\"3079\" class=\"elementor elementor-3079\" data-elementor-post-type=\"post\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-4abfc409 e-con-full e-flex e-con e-parent\" data-id=\"4abfc409\" data-element_type=\"container\" data-e-type=\"container\">\n\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-5a30b2d interior-banner interior-banner--grayscale e-flex e-con-boxed e-con e-child\" data-id=\"5a30b2d\" data-element_type=\"container\" data-e-type=\"container\" data-settings=\"{&quot;background_background&quot;:&quot;classic&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"e-con-inner\">\n\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-175e4935 e-con-full e-flex e-con e-child\" data-id=\"175e4935\" data-element_type=\"container\" data-e-type=\"container\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-2ab1c4aa heading1 elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"2ab1c4aa\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-e-type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<h1 class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\">Il rapporto tra chatter e lobing<\/h1>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-5f0b15b elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"5f0b15b\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-e-type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\">Documentazione tecnica<\/span>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-657d0e80 e-flex e-con-boxed e-con e-child\" data-id=\"657d0e80\" data-element_type=\"container\" data-e-type=\"container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"e-con-inner\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-23ecc5da elementor-hidden-mobile elementor-widget elementor-widget-hfe-breadcrumbs-widget\" data-id=\"23ecc5da\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-e-type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"hfe-breadcrumbs-widget.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<nav aria-label=\"Breadcrumb\"><ul class=\"hfe-breadcrumbs hfe-breadcrumbs-show-home\"><li class=\"hfe-breadcrumbs-item hfe-breadcrumbs-first\"><span class=\"hfe-breadcrumbs-home-icon\"><svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"14\" height=\"13\" viewBox=\"0 0 14 13\" fill=\"none\"><path d=\"M13.4766 6.92523C13.4766 7.34711 13.125 7.67523 12.7266 7.67523H11.9766L12 11.4252C12 12.269 11.3203 12.9252 10.5 12.9252H3C2.15625 12.9252 1.5 12.269 1.5 11.4252V7.67523H0.75C0.328125 7.67523 0 7.34711 0 6.92523C0 6.71429 0.0703125 6.52679 0.234375 6.36273L6.23438 1.13617C6.39844 0.972107 6.58594 0.925232 6.75 0.925232C6.91406 0.925232 7.10156 0.995544 7.24219 1.11273L13.2188 6.36273C13.4062 6.52679 13.5 6.71429 13.4766 6.92523Z\" fill=\"#002F86\"><\/path><\/svg><\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.adcolegage.com\/it\"><span class=\"hfe-breadcrumbs-text\"><\/span><\/a><\/li><\/ul><\/nav>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-632f0452 elementor-tablet-position-inline-start elementor-mobile-position-inline-start breadcrumbs-back elementor-hidden-desktop elementor-hidden-tablet elementor-view-default elementor-position-block-start elementor-widget elementor-widget-icon-box\" data-id=\"632f0452\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-e-type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"icon-box.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-icon-box-wrapper\">\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-icon-box-icon\">\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"\/\" class=\"elementor-icon\" tabindex=\"-1\" aria-label=\"Back to Previous\">\n\t\t\t\t<i aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"fas fa-arrow-left\"><\/i>\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-icon-box-content\">\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-icon-box-title\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"\/\" >\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tBack to Previous\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-3ac560df elementor-widget elementor-widget-post-info\" data-id=\"3ac560df\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-e-type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"post-info.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<ul class=\"elementor-inline-items elementor-icon-list-items elementor-post-info\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<li class=\"elementor-icon-list-item elementor-repeater-item-2492c82 elementor-inline-item\" itemprop=\"datePublished\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-icon-list-text elementor-post-info__item elementor-post-info__item--type-date\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<time>25\/11\/2025<\/time>\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t\t<\/ul>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-400bcd65 e-flex e-con-boxed e-con e-parent\" data-id=\"400bcd65\" data-element_type=\"container\" data-e-type=\"container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"e-con-inner\">\n\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-3a34576b e-con-full e-flex e-con e-child\" data-id=\"3a34576b\" data-element_type=\"container\" data-e-type=\"container\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-11bf39bf elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"11bf39bf\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-e-type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p>\u00a0Adcole<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-74205b92 elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"74205b92\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-e-type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p>Quando l&#8217;errore di profilo di una parte cilindrica presenta un andamento ondulato e ripetitivo, si dice che presenta chatter o lobing. I due termini si sovrappongono e sono spesso usati in modo intercambiabile, sebbene nessuno dei due sia chiaramente definito da norme o prassi. In generale, tuttavia, le ondulazioni a bassa frequenza sono chiamate lobing, mentre gli errori ad alta frequenza sono chiamati chatter. L&#8217;uso di questo tipo di classificazione presenta due problemi. In primo luogo, nessuno dei due termini indica il calcolo utilizzato per ricavare il risultato dai dati misurati. In secondo luogo, nessuno dei due indica la linea di demarcazione in frequenza dove il lobing diventa chatter. Pertanto, una specifica che definisce &#8220;lobing&#8221; o &#8220;chatter&#8221; senza metodi e frequenze \u00e8 inadeguata. Esaminiamo i metodi utilizzati per calcolare questi parametri sul vostro <a href=\"https:\/\/www.adcolegage.com\/it\/shaft-metrology-gages\/\">misuratore Adcole<\/a>.<\/p><p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.adcolegage.com\/it\/software\/chatter-analysis-metrology-software\/\">Il chatter<\/a> viene calcolato sottoponendo il set di dati a una trasformata di Fourier veloce (FFT) e fornendo i risultati come ampiezza rispetto al numero di volte per rivoluzione (chiamato UPR o Undulations per Revolution). Tuttavia, il lobing risale a prima della disponibilit\u00e0 dei moderni computer, quando non era pratico eseguire trasformate di Fourier complete (ammesso che qualcuno pensasse di farlo). Il lobing \u00e8 stato definito come errore di rotondit\u00e0 da picco a picco in un settore angolare dell&#8217;insieme di misurazioni radiali (i dati registrati dal profilo del pezzo mentre il pezzo viene ruotato nel calibro). Si tratta essenzialmente di un grafico a torta dei dati di rotondit\u00e0. In pratica, una &#8220;finestra&#8221; di 5 gradi con lobi \u00e8 la pi\u00f9 stretta selezionata per la misurazione dei lobi. La pi\u00f9 ampia \u00e8 solitamente di 45 gradi. Se ipotizziamo un andamento sinusoidale attorno al pezzo, senza errori diversi da quelli della forma d&#8217;onda, una lunghezza d&#8217;onda completa che si verifica all&#8217;interno di una finestra di 45 gradi rappresenterebbe 8 increspature. Per 5 gradi, vedremmo 72 increspature complete.<\/p><p>Sulla base di queste definizioni di metodo, l&#8217;FFT pu\u00f2 essere teoricamente utilizzato per rilevare modelli di ripple a qualsiasi frequenza, comprese le basse frequenze, e il metodo di calcolo del lobing pu\u00f2 rilevare i valori picco-picco del &#8220;chatter&#8221; ad alta frequenza (supponendo che la misurazione del lobo includa una lunghezza d&#8217;onda completa del modello di chatter e che il modello sia adiacente attorno al log). Quindi, sembra che la vera domanda su cosa sia il chatter e cosa sia il lobing si riduca alla linea di demarcazione nella frequenza dell&#8217;evento, almeno secondo i concetti generalmente accettati. Esistono altri metodi proprietari e specifici per il cliente, ma questi sono i due metodi generali utilizzati.<\/p><p>Nel mondo reale, tuttavia, gli errori nel profilo o nell&#8217;arrotondamento sono molto raramente (se non mai) un&#8217;onda sinusoidale perfetta. Quindi, ogni misurazione, che si tratti di lobing o chatter, ha un uso e un vantaggio speciali. Ma poich\u00e9 lo scopo di ciascuna sovrapposizione \u00e8 l&#8217;altra, i due termini sono spesso usati in modo improprio, in modo intercambiabile. Un problema pi\u00f9 grave sorge quando uno sostituisce l&#8217;altro. Invece di considerare il lobing e il chatter come un confronto di frequenza relativa, esaminiamo questo problema da una prospettiva diversa: quella della funzione. In altre parole, cosa stiamo cercando di ottenere con la misurazione del lobing o del chatter?<\/p><p>Come discusso in precedenza, la misurazione del lobing sul misuratore Adcole mostra l&#8217;ampiezza massima picco-picco all&#8217;interno di un settore limitato di dati di rotondit\u00e0. Non importa se la differenza fa parte di un&#8217;onda ricorrente o di un evento singolo. La misurazione del chatter Adcole, invece, viene utilizzata per trovare i risultati specifici dell&#8217;UPR e dell&#8217;ampiezza per un segnale ricorrente. La componente UPR pu\u00f2 quindi essere utilizzata per identificare la causa e pu\u00f2 persino identificare la macchina specifica che l&#8217;ha causata. Ogni misurazione presenta vantaggi e svantaggi. L&#8217;analisi FFT Chatter cerca di identificare modelli ciclici nei dati di misurazione e pu\u00f2 separare i diversi segnali sovrapposti nelle loro componenti UPR e di ampiezza. Tuttavia, \u00e8 limitata nella sua capacit\u00e0 di determinare l&#8217;ampiezza di modelli non contigui e non \u00e8 lo strumento giusto per individuare un evento singolo, come un graffio o un punto piatto.<\/p><p>La misurazione dei lobi, invece, pu\u00f2 riportare il picco massimo e il minimo all&#8217;interno della finestra di misurazione ed \u00e8 quindi pi\u00f9 adatta per trovare qualcosa come un punto piatto, un graffio o un piccolo settore non pulito. Con i lobi, tuttavia, non esiste un modo pratico per separare le diverse frequenze senza calcolare 360 o pi\u00f9 finestre. Anche in questo caso, si supporrebbe che l&#8217;ampiezza picco-picco completa fosse il risultato di una specifica frequenza di interferenza. In realt\u00e0, \u00e8 probabile che vi sia una serie di componenti di frequenza che si sovrappongono e che possono aggiungere o sottrarre dall&#8217;ampiezza totale. Il lobing \u00e8 pi\u00f9 indicato per rilevare rapidi cambiamenti nei dati su un intervallo angolare limitato, applicando una tolleranza alla finestra che \u00e8 pi\u00f9 stretta rispetto alla finestra applicata all&#8217;intero set di dati. Ad esempio, le specifiche possono consentire un errore di rotondit\u00e0 di 6 micron, ma limitare tale errore a non pi\u00f9 di 2 micron in una finestra di 30 gradi.<\/p><p>La specifica del lobing \u00e8 efficace per individuare deviazioni isolate, come un gradino o un graffio nel perno. Il chatter \u00e8 pi\u00f9 utile per individuare modelli ripetitivi che indicano segnali di vibrazione nell&#8217;attrezzatura di rettifica o una situazione in cui \u00e8 ancora presente un modello di funzionamento irregolare (senza eccentricit\u00e0). Entrambi i tipi di difetti hanno implicazioni funzionali per l&#8217;albero motore e la giusta combinazione di misurazioni di chatter e lobing pu\u00f2 aiutare a determinare e diagnosticare la causa. Tuttavia, le due specifiche sono complementari e l&#8217;una non pu\u00f2 sostituire completamente l&#8217;altra.<\/p><p>Per definizione, Lobing esamina i dati di rotondit\u00e0 su una finestra angolare limitata; la nostra analisi standard FFT Chatter analizza i dati a 360 gradi. Tuttavia, se \u00e8 presente un modello di chatter non contiguo, pu\u00f2 essere utile concentrare l&#8217;analisi su una porzione pi\u00f9 piccola del set di dati. Un segnale che si verifica su un intervallo angolare ridotto pu\u00f2 sembrare avere un&#8217;ampiezza inferiore quando l&#8217;analisi viene eseguita sul 100% dei dati. Limitando l&#8217;analisi a un intervallo angolare specifico, \u00e8 possibile ottenere una rappresentazione pi\u00f9 accurata dell&#8217;ampiezza del chatter. I pacchetti software Adcole per l&#8217;analisi del chatter FFT includono opzioni per esaminare intervalli angolari limitati sia per i perni che per i lobi delle camme. Per una buona analisi, assicurarsi di utilizzare un settore sufficientemente ampio. Un settore troppo piccolo pu\u00f2 portare a risultati distorti e\/o a una determinazione UPR errata.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-12fb418b elementor-widget-divider--view-line elementor-widget elementor-widget-divider\" data-id=\"12fb418b\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-e-type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"divider.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-divider\">\n\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-divider-separator\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-d84250a elementor-icon-list--layout-inline elementor-list-item-link-full_width elementor-widget elementor-widget-icon-list\" data-id=\"d84250a\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-e-type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"icon-list.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<ul class=\"elementor-icon-list-items elementor-inline-items\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<li class=\"elementor-icon-list-item elementor-inline-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"#\">\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-icon-list-text\">Analisi FFT Chatter<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<li class=\"elementor-icon-list-item elementor-inline-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"#\">\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-icon-list-text\">Lobing<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/ul>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-407ac3bf e-con-full e-flex e-con e-child\" data-id=\"407ac3bf\" data-element_type=\"container\" data-e-type=\"container\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-18d01edc elementor-widget-divider--view-line elementor-widget elementor-widget-divider\" data-id=\"18d01edc\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-e-type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"divider.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-divider\">\n\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-divider-separator\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-40fa99f7 elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"40fa99f7\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-e-type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p>Strumenti e software correlati<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-1a8b96cc elementor-align-end elementor-icon-list--layout-traditional elementor-list-item-link-full_width elementor-widget elementor-widget-icon-list\" data-id=\"1a8b96cc\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-e-type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"icon-list.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<ul class=\"elementor-icon-list-items\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<li class=\"elementor-icon-list-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.adcolegage.com\/it\/software\/chatter-analysis-metrology-software\/\">\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-icon-list-icon\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<i aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"fas fa-arrow-right\"><\/i>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-icon-list-text\">Software Chatter<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<li class=\"elementor-icon-list-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.adcolegage.com\/it\/shaft-metrology-gages\/\">\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-icon-list-icon\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<i aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"fas fa-arrow-right\"><\/i>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-icon-list-text\">Tutti gli strumenti di misura per alberi Adcole<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/ul>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-783667b4 e-flex e-con-boxed e-con e-parent\" data-id=\"783667b4\" data-element_type=\"container\" data-e-type=\"container\" data-settings=\"{&quot;background_background&quot;:&quot;classic&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"e-con-inner\">\n\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-5f19e043 e-con-full e-flex e-con e-child\" data-id=\"5f19e043\" data-element_type=\"container\" data-e-type=\"container\" data-settings=\"{&quot;background_background&quot;:&quot;classic&quot;}\">\n\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-28b64426 e-con-full e-flex e-con e-child\" data-id=\"28b64426\" data-element_type=\"container\" data-e-type=\"container\">\n\t\t\t\t<div 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